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tv   The Dylan Ratigan Show  MSNBC  April 20, 2012 1:00pm-2:00pm PDT

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the life of bob marley today. that's what i should have said. dylan is, in fact, off today, so matt miller is here. mr. miller, how are you? >> i'm great. we're going to dig into the loan scam where they're trying to raise the rates on kids. plus, new research that shows that cursing can be good for your health, martin. the show starts right now. good friday afternoon to you. i'm matt miller in for dylan ratigan. today's big story, leave it alone, as in the current interest rates students pay on subsidized federal stafford loans. right now the rate is at 3.4%. but if congress doesn'tç act ts
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spring, that will double to 6.8%, putting our students even further into debt, another 11 grand adding to the average student's payment. thousands of students rely on these stafford loans every year. the obama administration is launching a college tour and social media campaign to keep the rates from rising. education secretary arnie duncan front and center at a white house briefing today. give a listen. >> at a time when going to college has never been more important, it obviously, unfortunately, has never been more expensive. families of students are struggling to meet these kotcos and there's no reason we should add to that burden. many are thinking college may not be for them. >> it doesn't fix our current student debt per diploma. it now tops 1 trillion there are for the first time ever.
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that's higher than what the average person owes on their credit cards. on a dismal job market, how can we expect students to pay back these loans without going into default? peter welsh of vermont is trying to get the house to lower the current interest rate. where does this stand, and how in an environment when banks are paying 1% or less on people's cd can the public say we're going from 3.5 to 10% on student loans? >>ç there are hundreds of sponsors to keep those interest rates at 3.4%, and you laid it out pretty clearly. what we're doing is asking these kids who are getting out of college to start life with a financial albatross anchored around their neck and it's just not possible. it's tougher for them in vermont, for instance. 77% of our students have
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stafford loans. it averages to about $33,000 for them. in the tough market, they're not certain they'll have a job. entry level wages are low. they have this huge debt and it's tough for them. it's also bad for the economy because they're not going to be able to make responsible purchases, a refrigerator, a car, things you need getting started in life, and that hurts the economy. so there is a fundamental question here about the middle class. are we going to have an economy where we make the investments in the future? and we all know you have to educate young people, the work force, and you can't have them graduate with this debt that subjects them to an impossible situation. or are we going to give them a shot? one of the other important things is -- go ahead. >> well, i was going to ask, peter, when it seems like the case is so clear, especially at a time like this where keeping
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interest rates lower on this, the republican argument is that it's a matter of fiscal responsibility because it's going to add $11,000 over 13 years, butç it will slash all e stuff from middle income folks, so this is an echo of government budget priorities? >> what it shows is how idealogical the budget debate is. the one thing the republicans won't do is deal with any change in the top line budget number. they really just want to cut, cut, cut. it's obviously absurd in this case, not only because the priority of education is important to everybody, republicans and democrats alike, but these are loans. this is not a grant. the government is borrowing 2%. and i've had people say to me, if the government is charging 2%, why are you charging us 7 or
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8%? we can pay for this because the students who borrow the money pays for it. they're loans, they're not grants. >> let me bring in molly. she gained notoriety when she took on bank of america for its 5% debit card fees and she won. she has more than 10 grand in stafford loan debt !@boúchersel. she's also taking on stafford loan virginia fox for her comments on student loan debt on the gordon lydia show. >> i have little tolerance for people who tell me that they graduate with $200,000 of debt or even $80,000 of debt because there's no reason for that. the declaration of independence says live liberty andç the pursuit of happiness. you don't sit on your butt and have it dropped in your lap.
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>> she's dissing students who now -- back when congressman fox went to college, college cost a lot less, so it's not the student's fault that they're taking on debt to get the degrees that they want to get to focus on their career. >> i work on a non-profit called rebuild the dream, and we're really working on. to hear a woman who is actually a chair of the house subcommittee on higher education make these remarks at a time when kids are graduating off a cliff into huge unemployment rates, you know, over a trillion dollars in debt, it's really crazy to hear her say that, and what's worse is it feels like no one is really calling her out for that. we hear elected officials get away with saying things all the time that's completely insane. so at rebuild the dream, we decided to launch a petition asking speaker boehner and the
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rest of conference to denounce her completely out of line, out of touch remarks. we're getting a good remark. >> how many -- >> it's about 9,000 people have signed on. >> that's terrific. congressman, let me bring you back in a second. this whole interest rate thing was crucial. i don't think there's anything to address the soaring cost of college. four-year college, public or private, to theç average incom in the use uls. it's over half the median income to go to aivity it just doesn't change that big picture at all. >> well, see, that's right, and in fact this is a place where we might be able to work with the republicans if we could put down our idealogical battle here.
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tuition is going up at a rate of 8%. it's not sustainable. college costs have been going p up. we have to ask these administrators in higher education to do what is required to keep, one, we do have to help students. we have to help them with subsidized loans, we have to get more grants available so students can meet the tuition. but number two on the cost side, we have to look to our high education cost administrators toward making a much more agressive approach at keeping those tuition increases at bay. >> molly, you were in college much more recently. i can tell you by looking at you. you're a graduate but you have a fair amount of debt, right? >> oh, yes, i do.
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>> does anyone understand back in the nixon administrationing. . so even with theç measures. >> the whole system has gotten out of whack in the last few decad decades. >> we know. it's frustrating. when i was in college, i had a lot of friends that had to stop going halfway through or. and they conned afford it. maybe they'll just go back in a couple of years, but it's real disheartening to see them because they can't afford it. it was 1968 when it was possible to do that, and now i think you have a very small percentage of students able to do that successfully. >> just briefly, congressman
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welsh, former senator running again, bob kerry, a man who i think is a terrific politician. here's what he thinks is driving costs up. get a listen. >> the system is rigd against innovation. the federal law creates a regulatory environment provides a bar dwroer. whaet en. >> so congressman, obviously we don't have time -- dylan will come back to these issues, i'm sure, what. oh, itç makes it hard for lowe course providers to break in? >> well, he does have a point and he's focused on the cost side and the access side and
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he's right about that. but the one answer that should be off limits is to just shift that burden and the failure of politicians to deal with this situation, to shift that burden onto the students. molly is right, i met a young woman this morning at university of vermont and she's working two jobs. i just couldn't quite figure out how in the world she could study and do the two jobs, but what she told me is she has to do that in order to try to pay the bills and meet her living expenses. so the students are working hard now, but what they make doesn't go as far as when i was a student to help pay your costs. >> we'll have to leiave it ther for today, congressman. thank you, congressman peter welsh. coming up on the dav.
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we're back with deadline day for those march fund raising numbers. mitt romney had his best month yet. $12.6 million.
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after the obama campaign, it raked in more than four times that totalling $53 million. remember, that doesn't include all that secret superpac cash. carl rhodes found that the total so far is a whopping $200 million. our mega panel is rich with knowledge. welcome, guys. ari, let me start with you. i still think that whenever i see these reports, we need the kind of nascar system where every candidate has patches on them with who is response sore g i -- sponsoring them so they would have the big patches and the democrats would have the trial lawyers and the teachers' unions and everyone could wear funding in big patches. am i wrong? >> no, you're not wrong. i think senator durbin was the one who said they owned the senate, and i think there is a big contrast here to a very important trial that hasn't gotten a lot of attention yet, and that starts monday, the
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trial of former senator john edwards. he is being accused of misusing private donations for his mistress, raelle hunter, and has received prison time for it. i think that is such a strong contrast to all the numbers you just shared with the audience, because on theç one hand, you have these trumped-up corruption charge cases, that one doesn't even involve any campaign spending, and on the other hand what i think is perfectly legal which is all the more concerning which is vast sums of money, very little transparency, very little disclosure requirements and a lot more potential what we can n the law call potential complicate of interest. so i think next week's story will allow us to step back and ask, are we making the right things illegal in our campaign legislations? >> some people will say, look,
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it's obviously tons of money. it's crazy what our candidates and legislators spend dialing for dollars, but in aggregate, it's something less than the u.s. spends on potato chips or soft drinks. so should we really be jumping off a cliff when political campaigning costs this much? i want to hear you react to it. >> it's not the percent of the gdp i'm worried about, it's our impact on the democracy and whaet being put forth. mitt romney and president obama, both of their campaigns are going to tons of cash and they're going to do all sorts of things, fundraisers, spend lots of time collecting that cash. i'm very concerned about the superpac money. at least with the campaign money, you know it's coming from the campaign. you know that it's coming from barack obama or mitt romney and that they have an incentive to
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say mean things about the other guy orç nice things about themselves. with spthe superpac, you really don't know where it's coming from. it can be very misleading. american crossroads raking in tens of thousands of dollars, and in that case democrats are actually behind republicans. >> the superpac she talks about, this is about the supreme court saying we could have the limited donations, and they themselves said, oh, it's not going to be corrupting, which isn't very confident when we talk about the health care ruling coming down the pike. what do you make of the latest news on the money front? >> any time we give a bunch of money in any situation, there is going to be corruption. i'm just concerned that a small number of americans who have huge bank accounts are able to have a disproportionate amount of impact on the elections, on
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who gets to stay in the elections and on who has to drop out. really, it's come to a situation where your vote doesn't really matter unless you can, you know, give a ton of money to a candidate or a bundle of money tie candidate. that really is where voting happens, not this sort of going to a polling booth and pulling a lever. that's sort of a last gasp dinosaur part of it. i want more people to have a part of the protcess, and a smaller number of people are controlling the process. >> even knowing how much pourl an individual has versus these otherç -- tlz a feeling of the citizenry that they're disconnected and disempowered and that it doesn't matter what they say. >> from that depressing news, let's move from fundraising to that worry word in politics
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labeled "veep" which premiers this sunday. >> i meet a lot of people, and i got to tell you, a lot of them are idiots. >> i can just walk here from the white house and say, i'm from the white house. >> a new study today says that cursing can actually help your health level. no idea what it does to the people on the receiving end of your cursing, but let me start. what do you make of that research, turreoure? >> it probably relieves a little bit, but it shows, i'm the big dog in the situation. maybe that will relieve some anxiety, but man.
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i want to give ari some dog gown equal times. >> i don't want christi to talk but you i heard it in the green room.ç . i'm reminded there was another study that got a lot of tension over the. it is easier to succeed in that ya, so they recommended that you can actually take some time off your and your diet will actually go better. the general idea being you only have republicer twar is is letting it fly sometimes may and fre-up that discipline tank for other things. >> air, always bringing that
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research. that's a hell of a point he makes. >> i wonder if it's relevant. if you're mitt romney and you say, muffins, does that give the same relief as someone else using a more provocative curse word? for my own peace, i would say you get a lot of the same benefits from laughter and i think we could use a little more laughter in our discourse and maybe a little less of the potty language. >> laughter makes you feel better, but when you tell somebody who they really are in choice words, that definitely makes you feel better. >> look e. the panel is going to stay. fromç chursing to cha riz ma. we have our mega panel here. we'll put those questions to our
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mattç damon, i love matt damon. love the guy. matt damon said he was disappointed in my performance. well, matt, i just saw "the adjustment bureau," so right back at ya, buddy. >> this feels good being back in michigan. you know, the trees are the right height -- [ applause ] >> -- the streets are just right. ♪ i'm so in love with you ♪ oh beautiful, for spacious skies, for amber waves of grain ♪ >> fair or not, such is the characterization of our charismatic president and mitt romney dubbed romney the robot.
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is charisma something we're just born with? our guest says no. and although they may seem strong and outgoing, many of those qualities can be earned. elizabe olivia fox cabane wrote "the charisma myth." you're suggesting ways to improve your charisma as anç ay beaut -- attribute. how does that work? >> charisma isn't this amazing super quality you happen to have at birth. instead, people learn is to quickly that by the time they
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get to adulthood, it seems to be in nature. but if you look at someone like steve jobs, he constantly earned his charisma, and you can see him gaining different llelement of charisma through his different presentations through the years. >> do we have a clip? no, we don't have a clip. olivia, you can't actually see them, but take my word for it. they're very good looking but they're also extremely charismatic. what do you wonder about charisma? >> what are your examples of people who have learned over time? >> so marilyn monroe is one of those people who did learn charisma fairly early on, as did tina turner. they learned it, however. clinton is one people tell me he's pretty much born with it.
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and i say, but, everyone can improve. >> olivia, this is krystal. i have a young daughter. is this something we should be doing with our young children to encourage their charisma at a young age? is that the sort of thing youç advocate for? >> it might be, because most of the charisma starts with the mind tricks that will give you a ca charismatic mind which makes you charismatic. it's just a matter of time before you fine out and expose the fraud. this probably could be taught in k-12. there is a little to absorb. i'm not sure a 6 or 7-year-old would be quite red dr. --
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>> i love the fact that these are learned. can you tell me what ari can do to learn a little more. >> it's three main components. the first one is presence, and that's how present you are in a cooperation. how fully are you aware of what was happening, and the is out of here today, but for jua couple seconds. it sweeps you from head to toe andç gets you very physical in the moment. i know it's not obvious your
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toes are full of charisma but it really helps. there's presence, there's power and there's warmth. if you look at which candidate leads with what, if you contrast clinton, obama and romney, they all tend to lead with different elements, and sadly, in romney's case, he doesn't lead with much. that's probably why, i'm sorry to say, but romney would probably get an f in charisma. >> i'm sure one winning that's happening now is we're all wiggling our toes. you have clients who will bring you in, but what do you do, like a charisma audit first and then suggest a kind of improvement plan? >> in some cases, you would be
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surprised at all the executives and oeos that bring me in not to learn it but how to handle it better. charisma always has side effects and you have to learn how to handle them. so a fair number. means that you add r as a leader, your motions has theç p emotion is contained in a positive effect. others don't do so well. >> olivia, you talk about power and warmth is the key limits. >> tell me briefly what you think about those and how folks can improve them. >> power, it turns out, we judge that through expensive clothing and mainly through body
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language, so it's really a question of how confident your body language is and the confidence you broadcast. here's the question of removing the eye sick. all those things are almost present in every year. learning to you to offset body language, imagine being a big gorilla. want to look big ler. you clasp your hand behind your pack, kind. it makes you look confident but it actually shooz a feeling of confidence so it's a positive
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sake he will. >> the third element is really broadcast to theperson. it's ol located directly to your facial expression and see specifically to your eyes and face. if you look, we were talking about romney earlier. the clip you aired a couple minutes ago, his facial expressions were very rigid. he was kind of wearing a mask. he lacks heart, he lacks warmth, and that is something you can't you. back to click on leaves with warmth. i'm sitting up straighter and my toes are all over the place. the book is the charisma.
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rats in a political ad aboutal gore in the 2000 election. they criticized him with the unflattering word in the democratic party. now look at this gin ad in the back of the time in, you can se the word sex seemingly engraved in the ice cubes. subliminal messages likeç thes are long used to provoke us to do unconscionable things.
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our next guest says that doesn't mean we're getting brainwashed. ingrid, editor of american mind. this has fascinated me since i was a kid. there was a book called "subliminal seduction." i did my first school report on this, the different hidden things ask ads. there's been a real history. this has been a craze for decades. walk us through the history and how researchers have approached it. >> the history dates back to the 1950s when an independent marketing researcher claimed he held a press conference in 1967, claiming that he had flashed messages by popcorn and drink coca-cola to movie goers, and as a result the popcorn sales went up and coke sales went up. so this provoked quite an
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uproar. people, then, were very upset that, you know, maybe this was happening in advertising and there were editorials coming out against subliminal me say sanling. and, you know, basically -- and then -- but researchers couldn't confirm. they tried to repeat the experiments and they couldn't repeat it, and five years later, it turned out this man toldç everyone it was a gimmick. so the extreme claims of the effective subliminal messaging are really unwarranted. that's where the history started, but what happened was despite the fact that vickery sort of took his statements back, as usuallily happens, the original claims get far more publicity than the retractions do. so for a very long time, people were afraid that subliminal
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messages could really change our minds and our behavior in a major way. >> and yet, as this research has gone forward, because what i've loved about the piece in your magazine is there's always been interest in this among academics and psychologist and see those who study these things, and even if the overinflated claims got debunked, i guess what your piece is showing is there is a way that this does seem to have some influence in limited circumstances. explain what folks should know about this. >> absolutely. what happened is that even though subliminal messages can't really completely change, you know, our opinions, they can't make us do unconscionable things or things we wouldn't otherwise do, they do have subtle influences on us. but they're only under certain circumstances. so we have to be ready for the message. for example, if we're given a suggestion, a subliminal
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suggestion, of çlipton iced te and we're already thursday hirse haven't made up our mind about what we're going to have, the message of lipton iced tea will increase the chances we'll choose that over another beverage. but we have to be ready for it at that time. there can't be a commercial a week before -- well, there could be but that's not going to influence our choice of buying lipton iced tea the next time we walk into a deli. >> i still think even when it's not subliminal, when i sit in the movie theatre, sometimes they show the coke and popcorn and stuff right before the movie starts. it's not subliminal, but i find i say, i'm thirsty. maybe i'm going to go get a drink. is it that mean i'm a weak, sugge suggestible people and it could work on me? >> we're all weak and
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suggestible. there are all sorts of influences on our consciences and as we walk in our daily lives. if we pass by a coffee shop and the aroma of the coffee might make us want an espresso right then. in very interesting experiments, there are more subtle influences in consumer marketing in which people respond. their buying behavior is a response to the type of music somebody plays in a store, so classical musicç will cause people not to buy more in a wine shop but to buy more expensive wine as opposed to pop music. so there are these subtle influences, but it's really not a bigger influence than a lot of the influences that we have as
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we just walk about and smell things and taste things and see things out of the corner of our eye which remind us to do things. that's, i think, the order of the influence of these messages. >> and so are people -- are there still serious -- is there a community of researchers devoted to trying to push the frontiers of this research further, or do we think we kind of know what the possibilities and limitations are and we don't need to worry about mind control and being victimized by, you know, powers that be that are trying to propagandize without us even knowing it. >> i think it's still in the research field. what happened is the claims of brainwashing and of, you know, making us do horrible things because of things recorded backwards on records and these sorts of things were unsubstantiated, and for a while
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the research was -- the research field was fairly dead. but as we discovered some of these more subtle influences, i think researchers are very interested in exactly what those influences are. under what circumstances are we going to be persuadedç how long is the time window during which we can be very subtly manipulated by these messages? i think the subconscious is a very interesting area and i think this sort of speaks to what extent all kind of environmental influences affect us. >> s musicians like ozzy osbourne, judas priest, marilyn manson, they put hidden messages in their music, is it part of the act? >> i think it's part of the act. i remember people getting very excited about these messages back in the 1980s.
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you know, with the records you could sort of try to play them backwards and hear them -- i remember my friends were very excited about this stuff. i was a little skeptical because, i don't know, i had other things to worry about. but, i think, you know, you can record these things backwards which, you know, is kind of cool, but there was absolutely no data that these messages left any traces in memory. so they're really nothing to worry about, and i think they probably were a fairly successful gimmick since i remember them all these years later. >> thanks very much for going through the subliminal mind effects that we need to know about today. thanks again. >> thanks for having me, matt. coming up on "hardball." the development in the trayvon martin case.ç zimmerman takes the stand in his bond hearing.
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well, it is friday which means toure is here with his daily rant. take it away. >> i shall steer clear of naming names i cannot name because they're in the control name. this is the serious hookergate. both the agents and the girls were involved in secret service, and when covers, both figurative and literal, get blown, then there is hell to pay for at least $800. tip your waitress, people. but really, grow up.
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there are far more important stories in the world right now. the president arrived in colombia after the sexual tempest in the teapot was well on a roll. the war on drugs was rejected by the president, but you won't hear about that stuff because hookergate is a bright, shiny object the media can't take their eyes off of. since sunday we've heard about this story every day because it's got some irresistable aspects. when you go into a newsroom and say, hey, anybody want to go to colombia to interview escorts? or anybody want to go toç esco secret service agents? every hand is going to go up. we tell ourselves it's serious because if this and that wehad happened, the president might be
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in danger. he never was in danger. is this such an important story that must be koemd through day after day, taking up precious time. it's a fun story. in one corner we had a woman who told reporters, i told him my cash money. one woman made to be a prostitute because she doesn't walk the streets. she's selective about who she sleeps with for money. in another corner, we have a secret service agent who swears the woman he had sex with he didn't know was a professional. we also have a rash of secret service pricings, who were named, which mean the agency is really, really mad at them. >> it's d.c. meets the tabloids. it's a fun, selacious story after the serious and emotional
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story of trayvon ask znd zimmer. it's been a crazy week, and right now as we speak, we're gearing up for wall-to-wall coverage of the marriage of brad and angelina. i'm so proud to be in the media. matt, aren't you, too? >> well, toure, i hear you and i understand what you're saying, but i got to say -- let me defend the media for a second. when i worked in the clintonç white house, the secret service i thought of as this elite core -- which they are -- an elite core of professionals who would take a bullet for the president. and i have to say, the fact that something like 20 secret service agents could be involved in this kind of she shan begans, i think, is shocking. so you have to give the media it was fun. >> i think we're talking more

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